When to act and when not to

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/05/ignore...n.ap/index.html

Many times in my life I have been told that if someone is hurt you call 911. For me it's understood that you shouldn't try and move them because you might cause them more harm (neck/back injuries exacerbated by someone moving the injured person in an attempt to help/comfort them). You wait for the people trained to handle such things to arrive and do the right thing.

I think that I would have cautiously approached the man. Then I would have stopped and hesitated because I would have no idea what to do to help him. I might have tried to stop traffic so that he wouldn't get run over again, but in doing so would I have created a traffic jam that hindered the emergency responders from arriving? Or might I have created a situation where others could be hurt?

If you where in that situation what would you do? Is what the people in the video did or didn't do right or wrong?

I used to be a dispatch rider(motorcycle courier) in London. I nailed a drunk guy getting off a bus with my bike. He walked right out in front of me without looking. I laid the bike down and slid right into him. The peg on the centre stand got him right in the inner thigh and he was bleeding like a stuck pig. I struggled to drag him to the sidewalk(I was pretty banged up) took his tie off and tied a tourniquet round his leg while I radio'd my dispatcher to call an ambulance. A crowd of about 30 gathered around us staring but only one person offered her coat and tried to help even though she said the sight of blood made her feel faint. She was a teacher on her lunch break. Luckily the guy survived and I was exonerated as his blood acohol level was 3 times the legal limit for driving. What it boils down to is, most people really don't give a shit as long as it's not happening to them.

I'm convinced this is part of a chain.

Judicial proceedures increasingly favour aquittal. Strong eveidence is required to convict. The police are aware of this, and demand extensive commitment from witnesses via paperwork and time. Witnesses are thus disinclined to "get involved" in any incidents.

So apathy is the best option.

How (the f**k) do acquittal rates stop people from being decent human beings and rendering assistance to a 78 year old guy lying in the street desperately in need of help?

The people in that particular neighbourhood are obviously uncaring scumbags. In many other districts/neighbourhoods, I'd imagine that many people would have come to his aid in a flash.... I know that if this had happened anywhere in my hometown, there would have been any number of people offering help.

So what if the man had an injured neck and someone came to his aid. What exactly should they do? Lift his head and cradle it while whispering it's all going to be ok in his ear? Should they feel so self righteous about doing the right thing that they don't even realize that lifting his head to comfort him caused the bones in his broken neck to severing his nervous system from the neck down?

It's easy to see what the right thing to do is and feel good about doing it.

Feel good about helping him even if it kills him? Wait and let others with better training and experience do their jobs?

Oh for crying out loud, stop making excuses for these cretins, zoomer... Nobody was suggesting throwing this guy over their shoulder and jogging over cobbled streets to the ER with him on their back.... these fuckers didn't even try and wave-off oncoming traffic. Your attitude is obviously akin to those who stood idly by while this old man lay bleeding in a busy road in obvious need of help.

How would putting a coat over an injured old man to keep him warm have killed him? How would stopping oncoming traffic have harmed the situation? How is checking to see if he is bleeding seriously (and applying pressure if he is) going to aggravate his predicament if he's going to bleed to death before he ends up in a wheelchair?

And FFS.... Kneeling at his side and offering words of comfort and/or telling him that help is on the way does NOT need special training and experience.

The fear of doing the wrong thing is not what stopped these onlookers from offering even the most rudimentary bit of help to this poor guy. Being mouth-breathing, rubbernecking morons without a shred of decency or humanity is what stopped them.

Yes, it's easy to pour scorn and judgement on apathetic bystanders - but hardly interesting, and certainly nothing like a discussion.

The fact is that this phenomenon is disturbingly common, yet the decency or morality of most folk is probably not the main reason IMO.

I put up a hypothisis that people fear consequences of excessive involvement after the act. Another reason might be that people have a reasonable fear that they may actually be prosecuted for helping in the 'wrong' way.

I must admit, I find such apparent callousness puzzling, but am interested in the discussion of reasons.

Apathy requires a lack of interest... these people were very obviously interested judging by the way they stood around gawping without lifting a finger.

You think that fear of involvement was their reason for inaction because of [insert dysfunctional element] in society... If that were the case, why would such behaviour not be universal?

No, these people chose to do nothing because they are lacking in personal decency and humanity. You call it "pouring scorn" I call it; calling a spade a spade.

From the little experience I have in the matter it seems that people are hesitant to help out until one person decides to help.

I fell off my bike in the snow once and lied unconscious or stunned for quite a while before anyone decided to stop and give me some first aid. When lookers-on saw she was struggling to get me up (on my request as I was freezing) she had no problem getting help. Someone had already called an ambulance but didn't bother to stop apparently.

The same sort of thing happened when someone was struck by lightning at my surfclub. There were many lookers-on seeing it happen as most had already made it to the garage boxes when it started pouring. One guy ran out to check on him and started reanimating him. This sparked off some others to go and help. By the time I got there, I was on my way there when it happened, there were 3 guys taking turns reanimating them while a bunch of others sheltered them by holding sails over them as an improvised tent.

The woman that helped me was a psychiatric nurse and the guy that started the cpr was also well trained in first aid.
It would seem to me that indecisiveness and ignorance are the main culprits for not helping injured people.

I got first aid lessons in the first year of middle school and cpr basics a few years later. I think in order to prevent situations where no one knows any more than to call for an ambulance first aid and cpr should be taught more often in secondary school and become part of the curriculum. They should also be a part of the theoretical driving exams imo. Here there are silly questions about which fuel is the least pollutive, questions about whether or not a first aid kit is mandatory, but not one question about how to use it. I think people would be more inclined to help if they actually knew what they should do instead of having a vague idea from the telly. The govt should play an active role in spreading that knowledge by means of information campaigns combined with free reminder classes at regular times imo.

My own govt is trying to decrease the numbers of traffic related deaths by means of setting up speed cameras everywhere, lowering the speed limits on many secondary roads and making road infrastructure more safe in general. Nothing has been done to increase the number of people who can actually help save lives by doing the right things until professional help comes. I wonder why that is.

Ignorance is not an excuse for doing nothing at all imo, they could have at least blocked the lane.


I don't think that's a factor tbh, I think most people's first reaction when they see someone in trouble is to help out. People run into situations where the situation is directly threatening to their lives in order to save a complete stranger, so I don't think legal issues come to mind. You can be severely fined and or jailed for refusing to help people in need here, yet many don't.

I wouldn't help anyone in America, for the simple reason that they or their relatives just cannot be trusted not to sue you for something you did or should have done.

If it happened in the UK a totally different story, If I was in a car hazard lights and parked so as to protect the man from further danger from traffic and a call to 999, if I was a pedestrian I'd call 999 at least.

edit - Not that long ago in Luton a diabetic fell into a coma while riding their expensive mountain bike ... a passer-by stole the bike. Its generally only the worst behaviour that is reported and such behaviour goes on all over the world. We are very rarely told about the other stories, and often this is because those involved don't want publicity ... and when they do they almost always come across as twats.

This post has been edited by pastabake: Jun 8 2008, 11:34 PM

That is TOTAL B.S. Pastabake most States have a good samaritan law that prevents them from being sued if they help someone in an accident.
Actually I was wrong all States in the US have enacted the law in some form or another.

I honestly was amazed no one helped Ive never seen such a thing. Not saying it doesnt happen obviously but I have never seen such a level of apathy personally. I wouldnt hesitate one bit to check on the person not one.


Wonderful to see you back zoomer

O/T

Welcome back zoomer

=))

Sorry but that's enough in my mind to keep well away from ever helping an American. Its your own fault for being so litigious and having such slime ball lawyers.

This is one of the things in life that really gets my goat, that lack of basic compassion for a fellow human being that needs help or assistance


I can’t help but wonder how different this scenario would have been if it was an animal of some sort that was involved


I wouldn’t mind thinking, regardless of how the animal rated on the fluffy kitten or cute puppy scale, that the help & assistance coming forward would have been different – and not just because the bystanders wouldn’t have had to, mistakenly, fear about the animal trying to sue them for the assistance they provided

Well pasta I guess its a reflexion of the way the different societies interact with one another.
In the US there are laws protecting the people that offer and render emergency help.
In other countries apparently it is necessary to enforce laws requiring people stop help someone in an emergency situation.


Go Figure