When is a Welfare State no longer a Welfare State?

Can you demonstrate that point on per capita GDP ymg? Not that I doubt you, but it seems like this thread is going to demand everyone gives evidence for everything. As is often said, there's lies, damn lies, and there's statistics.

Oh, and thanks for a chuckle zoomer. Really did pmsl at your description of the UK and so forth as socialist countries. They may be slightly closer to socialism on some definitions than the US, but both are many lightyears away from being socialist, at least to this (sort of) socialist's definition. It's very indicative of just how far to the right the US political centre is.

That said, when I read how billions of US taxpayers dollars are given away in subsidies to specific business sectors, or how your government creates laws like the DMCA or drug prohibition that command and control the operation of the free market, encouraging obsolete business models and banning potentially succesful ones, I find it hard to see much difference between the US's political system and China's communist capitalism.

This post has been edited by MichaelKVegfruit: Jul 26 2008, 07:47 PM

Germany: 40,415
France: 41,511
US 45,845

International Monetary Fund (IMF)

Back in the 80's we had the ACE scheme for the long term unemployed for them to earn their benefit...This was so open to abuse by the local managers ie getting workers to do paid work and pocketing the cash. The standard of work was crap too and it took jobs from local businesses. Surely the government needs to address the issues of low expectations, low self esteem and minimal prospects. A large group of people where I live their aim in life is to be able to claim disability allowance as alcoholics ,or with feigned mental health issues or faked injuries bad back etc. Depending on the disability these guys can claim around 250 per week with rent allowance ... So these guys would need to get a job earning at least 8 pounds per hour just to have the same cash.

This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: Jul 26 2008, 08:55 PM

Hey, if someone wants to make claims like the one YMG did then I think they need to be able to back it up. Now maybe if he used IMO tags, instead of things like numbers and percentages (which give people the impression what is said is fact), it would be a different story.


Ok.


In case you didn't realize nobody made any claims that the US was superior. The original mention of the US was when YMG made his claim of EU superiority to the US in terms of working hours and income. A claim of superiority which you have added to.

My original question was:

Is this becoming a trend among socialist countries? Recently Cuba decided that equal pay doesn't work, the UK is wanting to put it's unemployed to work, and now France has decided people may need to work more in order to be competitive?

I'll take it your, as well as YMG's, response would be an unqualified no.

Oh, I agree totally, I wasn't trying to mock you stats people: I'm glad someone can do it, I can't.

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I'm not really trying to say the US, or EU, or whatever is superior, just pointing out that 'socialist' state intervention in the market is pretty much routine everywhere.

So, when you ask:



I'd reply that there's not really a trend there. Different states have, as you point out, refined their methods of control, but I don't see a trend there beyond what all governments do all the time.

This post has been edited by MichaelKVegfruit: Jul 26 2008, 10:00 PM

I would have used that tag if what I said was just my opinion. It wasn't, so I didn't. The statistic come from a magazine I read last year, so I can't link you to it, but I'm sure if you want to you could research it and find similar.

I've already demonstrated the falling or static income levels (in real terms) of US workers compared to a generation ago, and it is common knowledge that Americans are the only country in the OECD where working hours are increasing. When recently challenged on this very point, GWB smiled and said "It's a uniquely American thing, isn't it." as if it was something Americans should be proud of... I can't link you to that video either, but it doesn't make it my opinion, does it.