another nail in our liberty's coffin or

Police have been granted stop and search rights in certain areas... Innocent people who live in an area of the governments choosing can be searched at random and at the whim of the police officer, without due cause..

The police and supporters would claim this is the only effective way to reduce knife crime. It would invariably help detect other crimes too but the premise is the reduction of knife crime by removing knives off the street..


Opponents of this "scattergun" approach claim this will alienate young black men who would be the officers victim of choice, driving a bigger wedge between the police and the communities involved... They also claim that fewer than 4 in 100 searches lead to an arrest and seldom are these for knife crimes...

Is this another step towards a police state or a necessary tool to combat our ever violent society.....



bbc

metropolitan police

This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: Aug 28 2008, 08:26 PM

We've had this before. It used to be called the SUS law, named because police could stop and search you if they had a suspicion that a crime was being committed. It was then abolished after the Scarman Report into the Riots that took place as a result of the Sus laws being used in a swamping operation that consisted of police swamping an area (Brixton) and searching everyone who was young male and black.

Like corrupt elite plainclothes units this is a cyclical thing in policing. The downside of the cycle involves more police being recruited and extra powers being given to them. The upside is when a number of high-profile incidents highlight abuses of powers and some units are found to be on the take or institutionally racist. Powers are stripped back and half the bods recruited in a hurry on the downside of the cycle are found to be not ideal police material. Then there are scare stories in the press about how a certain type of crime is creating no go areas (mugging in Brixton in the late seventies, knife crime now), police are understaffed and don't have the powers to do the job.... and this is where we came in.

So it's neither police state in the making nor a necessary tool, it's a periodic displacement activity that the police, media and politicians engage in rather than tackling the underlying problems.

Yesssssssss nothing like the upside of high profile abuse of power, now stfu and bend over take your search like a man pip pip, cheerio, stiff upper lip and all, it's just a cycle nothing to see here move along as long as it isn't you you can buy into this bollox.

I wonder what could increase the amplitude and duration of these "cycles"?

24/7/365 surveillance?

So would the simple translation of your post be "hey they are getting out of hand hire some thugs, teach them up right, then back off when people complain to loudly"?

Rhetorical question.

They could search me as often as they like, I've got nothing to hide. If it helps keep people safer so be it.

They could but won't because you're not a young, black male.

I used to work in the City of London at the time that they erected the "Ring of Steel" to combat terrorism. This thing was nicknamed the "Ring of Rubber" as it consisted mainly of knee high rubber barriers that made most of the road impassable. There were also clear booths like telephone boxes where the City of London Police could watch over entry to the city. It became apparent a little while after its implementation that the Police had a strong tipoff that the IRA were expected to strike by sending in teams of black men in BMW's.

Wow, so if I don't want that intrusion then I must have something to hide?

Rise up against this type of thinking.

But... but... mr f33dback sir, you said revolution wouldn't work.

I remember the 70's when young WHITE men were strip searched in the middle of the street in Belfast and other towns on the suspicion of terrorism.... These were INNOCENT I got nothing to hide types bullied by Fascist Bastards... I am a protestant and was largely oblivious to all this at the time but now my Catholic friends tell me about incidents in their lives which still leave them with a morbid hatred for the police... These are guys who's parents at the time were middle class..One friend was harassed because his name was Murphy "aye mate you must be IRA with a name like that".

The difference now is the police are supposed to be a little more polite and the victims of this removal of their civil liberties is young black men.....Oh and strip searches have probably been changed to a body grope.. What for example if someone doesn't like being touched, to be groped by a total stranger against their will must be very uncomfortable...

Being searched say once a year in the interest of a safer society and some ppl like f33dback may say thats part of society now... The point is some of these kids are going to be searched once a week or more for no other reason than the police have the power to search them....

F33dback you say you've nothing to hide, I assume you in no way break the law and are a model citizen "with nothing to hide" Say for example you are searched with some software you've dl'd or some music on cd'rs and from search that leads to your procecusion. I am assuming that you fileshare because you're on this site I apologise if you don't......

What if you were found with forged money on you given to you as change, or for a cash payment for something sold on ebay....

Or a little bit of grass...I'm not suggesting you smoke but some of us do and don't need the hassle.....

And what if you were stopped every Saturday night on the way to the pub "just routine Sir" After a while you would start to quote the mantra..." For fucks sake I haven't done anything wrong, why do you keep picking on me". Then arrested for obstructing an officer, taking another dangerous back talking thug off the street for processing..



At what point are they going to realise that victimisation, segregation, and bullying doesn't work.....

This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: Aug 29 2008, 09:09 AM

I don't think they are going to realise that.

We both have memories of certain groups being victimised in the 70's, I'm sure that Catholics in Kilburn and Harlesden suffered much the same tactics as you describe in Belfast. In '77 when people round my way went punk then they were harassed and moved on by police. In areas like Notting Hill and Brixton it was Afro-Carribs. Now when the stop and search comes in I would expect it will be young Muslim blokes that bear the brunt.

In fact they already are, 'cause in practice your rights are whatever the police say they are at the time. You don't want to turn your pockets out or take your shoes off in the street? Fine we'll arrest you and take you down the station for a strip search. Stop and Search never went away.

Thing is that the underlying causes of things are complex not simple, and by the time a copper has enough experience to figure that out he's either climbing a career ladder where he's bound by politics or on his way to a new career.

As for the politicians and senior policemen, victimisation, segregation, and bullying kinda does work for them...

btw feedback was agreeing with you it's Mr. M1shun who is taking the "nothing to hide" line.

Young black males may well be the majority targets in this case, and rightly so. A lot of the poor young lads that have been murdered due to escalating knife crime were young black men, who live on estates and in areas populated mainly by black families. It's hardly apartheid is it? The Police aren't doing it to just throw a handful of sand into their vaseline, they're doing it to try and prevent their kids from being stabbed!

It's always the same, the Police are always bloody demonised for 'targeting minority groups', they wouldn't have to target them, if in thier cases the people involved weren't of differing ethnicity! It's as if because you hail from a different country you're immune from Police action on the grounds that 'they're just doing it because I'm Black/Asian/Eastern European/Antipodean' - it's fucking silly.

I've been searched more times than I care to remember, getting on and off trains, planes and buses. It doesn't bother me because they're doing it for public safety or because someone who looks like me has committed a crime. Sure, it can be an embuggerance when you're in a hurry but if that's the worst of your worries you're doing okay!

I won't rise up against anything that I see as in the public interest. Sure, it's a sad state of affairs that our law enforcement people are left with no feasible choices other than invasive ones like this, but what're you gonna do? Unfortunately the kind of scumbag that carries a knife with the intention of stabbing someone doesn't usually subscribe to the honour system.

This post has been edited by m15hun: Aug 29 2008, 12:39 PM

Oh dear, let me put it another way:

The police will just use this as an excuse to harass people they don't like the look of and there will be no net gain for public safety. Was that short and simple enough?

Do you think by being patronising and rude it somehow gives your dull, regurgitated Guardian reader point more gravity?

This post has been edited by m15hun: Aug 29 2008, 02:11 PM

you choose to take the train bus or plane and accept the security measures put in place. We are talking about innocent being victimised for walking down the street.....

In N Ireland everyone going into the city center got searched.... that was part of living with civil war....But to get stopped and searched for no other reason than post code or colour is obscene

I'm thankful to be free of all that crap. One of the many reasons I left the UK.