The British called they want their guns back

now I have attached a video it is 9 mins long please watch before continuing with this thread If you havent seen the whole thing I will reguard your comments as nonsense..lol

here is the video

http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2...their-guns.html

OK SO YES IS IT PRO GUN PROPAGANDA!!

lol
well i am a gun owner, and i use them lawfully, for hunting and sportshooting.
I dont agree with some of the laws that have been instated. limiting people like me form having guns doesnt solve gun crime.
and lawa about guns dont stop criminals from having guns..but anyway

the question I am asking is only about 1 thing


What is your take on the farmer who shot the intruders?
I am not askign if you thought that guns are good or bad just about the farmer


o by the way it was found that the intruders were armed (not with guns but they both had weapons)

I feel he should be free I think you should be able to protect your self and your property
the only option he had was to run and let them have what ever they wanted
even if they were caught they would be out of jail by now and doing it to someone else as you can seey by their combined 50+ convictions

What a load of crock! (6 minutes into it and I must have a break to get the bs out of my eyes and ears)
How the fuck can you label someone who kills a 16 year old boy a fucking victim!?! Of course his sentence is deserved... he killed someone.


He could have pointed the gun at them, "request" that they hang around for a bit and call the fucking police.


And you'd like to use em should your property be at risk? That's EXACTLY why strict gun control is needed imo.

Sport shooting is fine imo if you mean target practice. There is no reason for people to do that anywhere but in a shooting range so there is no need for people to have them at home. I'm against hunting for any other reason than population control and even in that case it should be left to govt appointed professionals imo.

*reluctantly continues the vid*

I stand by what my disgusted mind thought up. It's nicely spun, but in essence they are claiming that gun ownership doesn't increase gun related deaths by an example where it clearly does.
I can't be arsed to look further into this case, but shooting someone dead when not threatened by a weapon cannot be self-defence in any way. A trigger happy fuckwit as poster boy for less strict gun laws. I'm glad the irony is lost on the protesters (come to think of it they would probably not be very happy to have been linked with that killer). It's very good for their credibility. Tying these two mostly unrelated issues together doesn't help people to sympathise with the ones who have half a point. By tying together the right to have guns and the right to shoot people they are making the point of people who oppose them. Is it ok to shoot a 14 year old because he is stealing candy from a store? Is it only ok when said kid carries a pocketknife?

Thank you for enforcing my ideas about gun bans by exposing me to this fine piece of journalism!

edited for typos and inconsistencies

This post has been edited by biebel: May 12 2008, 04:40 PM

I feel if some one weather or not they are armed breaks in with the intention to cause you harm (wich they did by carrying weapons) then you should respond and if he did point the gun at them and tell them to leave before shooitng as you suggest and they dont leave then what is he to do? is he then not to shoot

the 16yr old had over 20 convictions and should be in jail for life he is scum

i appluad any man who takes action against criminals like this


20 convictions and spent less than 5 yrs in jail total???
why even arrest or take him to court why not just shoot?
so if a man breaks into your house and threatens the life of your family or you and you point a gun at him and he still doesnt stop? what do you do?? not shoot??? id shoot the first step he took after i told him to get out...

a recent case from my home town a pizza delivery man was shot at in attempt to rob him.. he wresteld the gun form one of the robbers the othe rone shot at him he shot back and killed the one did not shoot at the other but held him there until police arrived...he is being sued for the death of the robber he killed (who fired 2 shots at him first) i sent money to support his lawyer fees today!! I do not condone the takign of a life nor do i condone illegal use of any weapon gun or other wise but protecting your property is the same as protecting your own life

i will always fight for the right to protect my own life and that of my family if some one breaks in with the intetnion of harm i will shoot

There are very many people with guns in the Czech Republic but they have sufficient humanity not to go shooting up schools and shopping malls. That is very much an American thing, so from my point of view Americans should not have guns at home. Even in Brazil where gun crime is so much higher does not have that kind of problem.

I know only a little about the farmer that shot the burglar, from what I know he shot him in the back, if that is the case, he should be in prison for murder. That is not self defence.

Guns outside of sport are really just for cowards.

I'm afraid that that is one of the greatest lies of the pro-gun lobby. In the EU, almost every gun rampage (Hungerford etc) in the past 20 years has been carried out by licensed gun club members using their own legally held firearms. The frequency of such rampages is very much lower in societies like the UK where gun ownership is very tightly controlled, than in societies like the US, where they are not.

Pro gun lobbyists in the UK and US will tell people that UK gun crime is increasing, which proves that our strict gun control laws are failing... what they wont tell you, though, is that the increase is almost exclusively because crimes involving imitation firearms and air guns (pellet guns) are now being included as gun crimes for statistical purposes, whereas before they were not. Serious gun crime (IE crimes where real guns have been used) such as armed robbery, murder, wounding etc are actually in a long term static or downward trend, with the exception of wounding which have doubled (primarily down to two large inner city regions AND the inclusion of air weapons and imitations in the statistics - interestingly, if you are threatened with a firearm, even an imitation firearm, you are now statistically classed as being injured by a firearm).

Your chances of being murdered with a firearm in the UK are almost incalculably small at less than 1 in a million (about 50 murders a year) and the 10 year trend for that is declining. By comparison, in the US, any given citizen is THREE times more likely to be murdered (per head of population) and more than ELEVEN times more likely to be murdered with a gun... Just to put that in perspective for you; most major US cities, individually, have more gun murders every 10 weeks than the ENTIRE United Kingdom does EVERY YEAR.

As for Tony Martin... The guy is no victim (other than in his own twisted mind) he is a murdering scumbag who shot a 16 year-old boy in the back as he was trying to run away. The definition of self defence in the UK is the application of the minimum amount of force necessary to prevent yourself from being harmed. Someone who is unarmed and fleeing the scene is very obviously not a threat to you, or anybody else's safety, so shooting him in the back as he was running away, can in no way be described as self defence. Tony Martin executed a sixteen year old boy for the simple crime of being on his property.

This post has been edited by yourmercifulgod: May 12 2008, 07:14 PM

First a couple of points about that "news" report:

The biggest peaceful march was not the march you see there by the Countryside Alliance. It was the anti-war rally shortly before the illegal invasion of Iraq. The Countryside Alliance are generally considered to consist of people who would be described in the US as "rednecks" More info on the Countryside Alliance here for those that can be arsed.

It is still possible to legally own a gun in Britain.

Now, Tony Martin:


Rest of report

The 16 year old thief that died had been shot in the back. Whilst fleeing. If he'd have been running toward Martin at the time there would have been more grounds for claiming self defence.

In the end Martin's murder conviction was quashed and he served 5 years for manslaughter.

Basically, I watched that report in full and it misrepresented just about every aspect of what was going on in Britain at that time.

I have to say that the various Criminal Justice Bills coming in to power during the last ten years have given most of us cause for worries about the type of society we now live in, but Fox Hunting is not the issue we should have been up in arms about, nor is gun control. We should have opposed the end of the right to silence when being questioned by the police more strongly.

One last thing: In the old forums I made the point that the constitutional right to bear arms was envisaged by the authors of the constitution as a safe guard against a tyranous government. George W. Bush fits all the criterea they would have used: unelected (first term), in favour of unfair taxation etc. So I'd like to ask all the pro-gun lobby once again: When are you going to form yourselves into armed citizen's militias and remove your oppressor from power?

@biebel said it all for me. Great post

Whoever commisioned that piece of "journalism" should send their CV to 10 Downing St, thats the best piece of inaccurately spun rubbish I've watched in years.

I didn't watch the vid I will when I get a better connection. I did watch a couple of documentaries on the case. I think that......
1. If Martin wanted to execute the intruder he should have made him turn round first, using British law to his advantage.
2. Guns do indeed kill people, or at least the little metally thingie traveling faster than sound ripping through their flesh kills people (guns don't kill people, people kill people) i.e. less guns less twats running around with them.
3. If, and this may sound a little radical, but if, there aren't any or less guns then less people will be killed maimed or injured by them, surely?

No property is worth somebody's life.

I was burgled 3 times in 1 year by the same people (the first burglary was for about 10000 pounds worth of stuff I'd collected all my working life including irreplaceable personal items) . These "people" belonged to a para military organization and were protected by them. The policeman investigating advised me to, his words, "take the law into your own hands, we can't do anything." I went to the "commander in chief" of the organization for the area who told me if I went to the police or laid a finger on 1 of his "soldiers" he would shoot me himself.
These "men", are still, 10 years later robbing, stealing, carjacking, selling drugs, but are now "the commanders in chiefs" they haven't spent more than 1 night in a cell.

I worked hard all my life for these possessions which these assholes took away in 1 night and sold for buttons. Assholes who haven't provided 1 atom to society. That property was my life, or what I had to show for 12 years of hard graft.

This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: May 15 2008, 05:30 AM

So would you have shot them if you'd caught them at it?

Fu#@ing right! Just to highlight the type of these "men" 1 of them raped a 16 year old girl and beat her half to death, her family were threatened if they tried to persue the "matter" and forced to leave the area... This was 2 or 3 years before they burgled my flat.

Working class people in Belfast don't get justice. Incidently the police failed to investigate the theft claiming that my flat was a squat/unoccupied. When the insurance company tried to get a police report the police arrested me and questioned me for insurance fraud.

In a middle/upper class area of belfast about the same time and old dear had her earings stolen worth 500 pounds, it was on the news and in the paper, with photographs and a description. 1 of my guitars was worth over 1500 and not a mention.

I realise that this is 1 incident and my feelings on gun laws are unchanged. There are enough assholes running arround with guns, the police and armies of the world, without giving them to anyone with an IQ large enough to spell their own name.

Is that why house prices are so cheap in N.I. @BBB?

Rotten deal for you. Live and learn, eh?

Guns are bad, 'mkay

House prices have gone "through the roof" in Belfast since the cease fire. The prats with the guns have had their wings severely clipped by going all "respectable". We're politicians now don't ya know.

My flat 2 bed room large sitting room 6 miles from the city center, 10 years ago 12000 today 75/ 80ooo. N Ireland has had the biggest increase of house prices in the UK most doubling in 10 years.

I must point out that this was in a loyalist estate and not indicative of the majority of Northern Ireland.

This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: May 16 2008, 03:40 AM

To (mis)quote Proudhon:

All property is theft.

Therefore, these assholes were actually unburdening you of your sins, not robbing you... bless 'em

I only hope you never get unburdened of your sins, although I know 3 guys who would be more than willing to relieve you of your "Stolen" possessions.

It would take more than three blokes.... some of my stuff is very heavy

They're not very brite but they can lift heavy things...