Tibet problem

Really what "coup" is this?
The original Buddha wouldn't like where it's going with Tibet then, it was never about control of others or power.


Show me how the US political system is as harsh as Chinas.

The attempted coup by followers of the Dalai Lama and the cult to which they all belong, against the Chinese government. Tibet was always part of China. The Chinese sanctioned the rule of the Dalais in Tibet, but it was always a patron state. When some Dalai went power mad and tried to spoil it all by declaring a wholly unjustified independence, the Chinese simply asserted their historic authority. Tibet is no more an independent country than Cornwall is.


I bet with enough time and resources, I could make it look as if it is...

Making the US look as harsh as China is just as easy as making the UK look like some form of police state.

Yes Tibet was independent.
Source(s):
Beckwith, Christopher I. (1987): The Tibetan Empire in Central Asia: A History of the Struggle for Great Power among Tibetans, Turks, Arabs, and Chinese during the Early Middle Ages, pp. 11-36. Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-02469-3.

Additionally and more accessible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#History


Well we have certainly had our moments, but the way you phrased that strikes me as more propaganda than truth.




It's actually quite easy to make the UK look like a police states, because it is a police state, the US isn't going to drag you off and shoot you if you go on TV and say "Bush is a dumb ass", try that in China "Chinas leaders are dumb asses...see what it gets you.

I would say this though, the US seems to be moving towards a more authoritarian state and possibly even facism.

As is the UK if everything in the news is believable, the far right is slowly overtaking the libs in the northwest of England...what will we gain from facism ?..I might just head off home..

I'd call hundreds of thousands of murders in Iraq and Afghanistan pretty harsh. Harsher than anything China is currently up to. I'd go into the past and the millions murdered by the US but there is no need.

If you want to go back in history then we are all animals and bastards, I call piffle, we are talking about contemporary times not massacred American indians, your Iraq point is invalid since, at least in my mind, we have been talking about a governments treatment of their own people, the Iraqi's are "other" not "us".

The thing is you can only go back 300 years or so for American atrocities...you can literally go back thousands for Chinese atrocities.

My point stands China is far more brutal to its own people than the American government is to theirs, even when taking into account the oppression of blacks in modern times.

well, its not invalid in my mind. What difference does it make if its people from one country or another. Doesn't make one worse than the other.



Thee "own people" holds no water. IMO its the same thing, maybe even worse to kill people from other lands.

It makes a difference, most people would agree that killing your own country men is worse than killing people of an opposing country, just basic tribal behavior.
And while killing may be bad in your view there are varying levels to this sort of thing.




Well you are entitled to your point of view, I fail to see how killing "others" is worse than killing your own.

really? got any stats on that? Probably if you survey those NOT being killed.



I fail to see how killing "non-others" is worse than killing "others".

f33dback, your point is, that Tibet is occupied by China.... therefore, the Tibetans are no different to the Chinese, than the Iraqis/Afghans/Nicaraguans/Vietnamese etc etc etc are to the Americans... according to your own argument, that is.

In order for your point to stand, you must accept that you were wrong and Tootle was right when he said that Tibet was part of China. Otherwise, the point about the US being equally/more brutal to foreigners than China, is quite valid, because historically, China's military/covert interference/actions outside of its own borders has been considerably less than the US's since WWII.

YMG, you're being anti-semantic!

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, my point is that China's political system seems extremely harsh to its own people, I then asked how anyone could think that the USA was equally as harsh to its citizens.
Iraqi's aren't US citizens so I don't see the harsh treatment they have received as relevant to my point, which is, once again, that the Chinese government is quite harsh and has no issues with killing its own people.


Here my point is that Tibet was not *always* a part of China, I made that point because Tootle is wrong in stating that it has been, however that's irrelevant to my original point, I don't see Tibet as an occupied country I see it as part of China and clearly they have received the same brutal treatment that other parts of China have.

I honestly don't see why you made this post, it was deadprez that extended the USA's "harsh" behavior to foreigners not me, he made a comment about the USA being equally as harsh as China but when unable to support that resorted to using examples like Iraq.

I was only interested in China's treatment of their own people, which would include Tibet, not in foreign occupations.

So once again contemporary China is exceedingly brutal to it's own citizens (that would be Chinese people living in parts of China, and of course Chinese territories) I don't see the same thing in the USA, though that may be just around the block.

@deadprez, you state I think you do see it, in this life you have to pick a side, to give you a simplistic example if someone holds a gun to your head and say either kill your mother or kill this other woman what do you choose?

That doesn't mean killing one or the other is right, it just means people are more likely to favor their family and tribe/people before that of strangers/foreigners.

I guess the UK has some issues with this as well
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle6466430.ece

This post has been edited by f33dback: Jun 10 2009, 01:56 PM

AFAIK the US imprisons more of its own citizens than any country in the world. That seems a bit harsh. Not to mention capital punishment and that ridiculous 3-strikes law.

The USA... the land of the needlessly incarcerated.

And how does that compare to China and their treatment of the same types of criminals not to mention a person (say a journalist) writing about what they see going on in China.

The only thing that really sets them apart imo is that China has a one party system and the USA has a two party system.

From a journalist's pov I guess having their journalistic integrity raped by having their papers or tv-stations bought by the same people who bought the govt is preferable to having it raped directly through the govt.

So the only difference between China and the USA is the 2 party vs 1 party? Interesting, what about China compared to the UK or Belgium?

By the way I think "integrity rape" is really the last thing a journalist in China worries about, I think long term imprisonment, torture and execution are greater concerns, that's an outsider view of things though.

That has nothing to do with anything. We are all citizens of the planet earth, and Iraqi life is equal to an american life regardless.



which...lets face it, is a one party system made up to look like a two part system. China should do the same to make it look like "democracy", have a communist party and a marxist party.


good point, yes besides killing hundreds of thousands of people, they also imprison more people than anywhere on earth.

Says who? You?
Human life is not equal across the board, what you are saying is a nice thought, I wish it were so, but it isn't true, has never been true, and in my life time will not be true.

Humans are more protective and care more for their own way before considering others, you see it in *almost* every mother.

On the topic of imprisonment China is second world wide, though if measured by "per capita" the US certainly has the lead there, China doesn't hold them prisoner they just kill them, China is nothing if not practical.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0405-07.htm

Prison in the USA is for profit, remove that and the prison population will drop to nothing compared to todays numbers.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/199622

I have to say deadprez you strike me as an idealistic youth with more chutzpah than realism.

No it's just logic isn't it?

If you object to Muslims thinking that the life of a believer is worth more than an infidel, your argument is that everyone should have an equal right to life.

You can't then say that just because there is more or less universal bad practice it isn't so and therefore you should automatically have a greater right to life.