Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )
|
|
||
|
What is the use of God?
This topic is about What is the use of God?, the author, torrenter, wrote about: I have accompanied many dying people to their fate, and God seemed unimportant to them (not people around them sometimes). Meanwhile the Muslim vs. C ... To read more just scroll down
  |
 What is the use of God? |
 Aug 8 2008, 09:01 PM
Post
#1
|
|
 Radioactive 
 Group: sVIP Received 115 Thanks Posts: 4,638 Joined: 23-March 04 From: Tenerife, Canary Islands Member No.: 625    |
I have accompanied many dying people to their fate, and God seemed unimportant to them (not people around them sometimes).
Meanwhile the Muslim vs. Christian (and even Shiite vs. Sunni) debate fuels killing on a vast scale in the middle east. AIDS spreads via a dogma that prohibits condoms, and homophobia rears it's head at the UK Lambeth conference of religious leaders. I mean - what is the use of the almighty nowadays? The origin of the Universe, Earth and life itself have plausible scientific explanations. Such problems used to require God to be wheeled in as an explanation. He has no stage. Is the good from religion been outweighed by the bad nowadays? This post has been edited by torrenter: Aug 8 2008, 09:01 PM |
 |
|
|
Aug 8 2008, 09:25 PM
Post
#2
|
|
 Advanced Member
Group: sVIP Received 182 Thanks Posts: 3,701 Joined: 26-February 04 From: United Counties of Chav Member No.: 201   |
No use.... and yes the bad outweighs the good.
Now just get the rest of the world to agree with me and we can finally move on as a global community without being able to blame evil on some fallen angel and just accept that some people are nasty pieces of work. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 8 2008, 09:33 PM
Post
#3
|
|
 Advanced Member
Group: sVIP Received 565 Thanks Posts: 2,805 Joined: 12-November 07 Member No.: 353  |
Seems to me the vast majority of the faithful believe in it because they can't quite believe that their lives can be that shit while complete cranberries live out their lives in luxury. They hold to the hope of heavenly reward because their earthly existences are incredibly hard.
Undeniably jetisoning religion would be better for the vast majority but it would involve massive acts of insurrection in which many individuals would die. There'd be no point to giving the supreme being his P45 unless you were going to put a few tyrants heads on sticks as well, after all they are the ones creating the inequalities that lead to religion providing succour in the first place. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 04:22 AM
Post
#4
|
|
 Anything is possible. 
Group: sVIP Received 110 Thanks Posts: 5,013 Joined: 23-June 04 From: Utah, USA Member No.: 21 |
I was going to ignore this thread. It's tiresome to keep defending my faith here. But I'd just like to say that the bitterness and animosity towards those who believe in God in this forum, is wearing thin on me. It has a lot to do with why I don't post much here anymore.
I've been here for a long time. I'd like to think I can count you all as friends. I'd like to think that even though you often disagree with my conservative morals and values, that I might have earned a modicum of respect. When questions like these are posed in such a derisive manner and the atheists jump on the band wagon to agree and add further derision, it pains me to think the implications are that I personally condone religious persecutions, holy wars, bigotry, disease, and worst of all ignorance and mindless obedience to farce and dogma. My faith is a comfort to me personally. I am strong because of it. I don't mock any of you that you don't believe. Likewise I don't blame any of you for crime, corruption, cancer, guns, armies, bombs, wars, inhumanities, etc. Not everything bad in this world is about religion. Do you really think AIDs would go away if condoms were spread religiously? Do you really believe human beings would co-exist peacefully if there were no religion at all? Do you really believe all religious people hate homosexuals? I though you all better than that. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 08:46 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Radioactive
Group: sVIP Received 115 Thanks Posts: 4,638 Joined: 23-March 04 From: Tenerife, Canary Islands Member No.: 625 |
QUOTE (Pinkjellybeans @ Aug 9 2008, 05:22 AM)  I was going to ignore this thread. It's tiresome to keep defending my faith here. But I'd just like to say that the bitterness and animosity towards those who believe in God in this forum, is wearing thin on me. It has a lot to do with why I don't post much here anymore. Would you please re-read my original post @pink? There is no generalised attack on religion or religious people there. I have given specific examples, which are surely not contentious? There is, however a question on the usefulness of religion in general, which is not a challenge to anyone's particular faith. I think the question is a reasonable one, and suited to this forum. Your own particular faith aside, what do you think would be the outcome if all human religions disappeared tomorrow? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 09:51 AM
Post
#6
|
|
 Moon Lander Champion! Red
Group: sVIP Received 63 Thanks Posts: 7,501 Joined: 18-June 04 From: Netherlands Member No.: 231  |
Personal religion is OK. Any organisation is dangerous
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 10:17 AM
Post
#7
|
|
 Yourmercifulgod™
Group: sVIP Received 713 Thanks Posts: 7,879 Joined: 22-March 04 From: +62 16 45.94 -6 51 37.14 Member No.: 204  |
Actually, Pink's right on the money... If religion disappeared tomorrow, the people who use religion badly (for whatever reason or motive) would just find something else to f*ck-up. If religion had never existed in the first place, all the wars that had ever been fought in the name of God, would just have been fought over something else... You see, the fault doesn't lie in God or the concept of God... It lies in mankind itself.
Personally, I've got no time for organised religion, but of late I've found myself increasingly asking if it all went away, would we have a net benefit or a net loss to humanity... TBH, I don't know. What I do know is, I'm no longer certain that there would be a net benefit. Look at Pink as an example; she obviously takes great comfort from her faith, so who the f*ck is anybody to try and take that away from her by questioning the usefulness of it? On the flip-side though, religion certainly needs to butt the f*ck out of politics, science education etc... religion only works well in a secular society. No matter how well intentioned a religion's interference in politics is, it ultimately leads to oppression like the Taliban or the Spanish Inquisition. As the saying goes, It is OK to believe in stones, but it's not OK to throw them at people who don't. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 10:30 AM
Post
#8
|
|
 Advanced Member 
 Group: Contributor Posts: 273 Joined: 19-August 07 Member No.: 28,485 |
To relieve one that somebody "knows"
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 07:23 AM
Post
#9
|
|
 Advanced Member
 Group: Member Received 54 Thanks Posts: 1,079 Joined: 1-February 05 From: nowhere Member No.: 612 |
QUOTE What is the use of God? to keep the poor from killing the rich. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 10:35 AM
Post
#10
|
|
 Advanced Member
Group: sVIP Received 749 Thanks Posts: 9,356 Joined: 23-January 08 From: Belfast Member No.: 283  |
My mum and dad are strict Baptists no TV on Sunday etc. I was brought up with a high moral code based on Baptist philosophy... I turned away from the church because it was based on a few mens interpretation of a book written 1800 years ago based on their moral values at the time... It's unfortunate that PJB is reluctant to post here as every debate benifits from the inclusion of all points of view...
I have traveled a lot and IMO the most zealous nations tent to be the poorest..... For them their religion holds their society together... So in answer to the question "what is the use of "God"" Belief in God keeps people sane who would otherwise have no hope... The fact that the rich in these countries use this as a weapon against the majority of the populous is a reflection of our failings not of religion.... This post has been edited by bigbaldybloke: Aug 10 2008, 01:06 PM |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 12:50 PM
Post
#11
|
|
 ‹(•¿•)›
Group: sVIP Received 18 Thanks Posts: 1,118 Joined: 23-May 05 Member No.: 650 |
QUOTE (torrenter @ Aug 8 2008, 10:01 PM) What is the use of God? f I was the devil, I'd invent religion just to create more strife amongst peoples |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 09:29 PM
Post
#12
|
|
 OK, weasels didn't really rip my flesh....
Group: sVIP Received 386 Thanks Posts: 5,354 Joined: 28-December 03 From: Fraser Valley, BC, Canada Member No.: 67  |
I'd be interested to know how many people were bought up in a pro-religious environment or not who replied to this post. I went to a minor British public school where we had chapel every day and twice on Sundays. The people who worshiped there (or pretended to) were quite happily diddling the kids the rest of the time. To me religion means hypocrisy. Do as I say not as I do. Needless to say I have not been religious ever since. For those who have a positive experience with organized religion the opposite may be true. I always wanted to be a Jew or a Catholic as they didn't have to go to chapel. In fact, they generally went down the pub on Sundays while we Anglicans were all stuck inside listening to some interminable sermon.....
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 10:07 PM
Post
#13
|
|
 Advanced Member
 Group: VIP Received 135 Thanks Posts: 1,699 Joined: 12-March 07 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 268  |
I think in a lot of places, by it's definition religion has changed and it still has a place. Sure we have science and that accounts for the things we do know but for all the questions to which we have no answer (which, for every one that gets answered a million more are asked), people will always look to a higher power.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 11 2008, 03:57 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Anything is possible.
Group: sVIP Received 110 Thanks Posts: 5,013 Joined: 23-June 04 From: Utah, USA Member No.: 21 |
QUOTE (bigbaldybloke @ Aug 10 2008, 04:35 AM) It's unfortunate that PJB is reluctant to post here as every debate benifits from the inclusion of all points of view... I agree with you BD, but it's not the opposing opinions that I resent, it's the underlying bitterness towards faith in general and the continual assertion that people who believe in God are mindless. I am very happy with my faith which extends to my being very happy with my life. It's almost like atheists resent my pleasures and want me to spend more time being unhappy. Torrenter, I can't answer your question for everyone. I can only answer it for myself since one's faith is highly personal and individual. My use for God is that I study doctrines I believe he's made available to me, interpret them as best as I understand and live my life accordingly. It works for me. I am happy and feel complete and content with my life. I am not rich by American standards but have all I need and want. I consider myself blessed by God for living as he wishes. I was raised in a godless home. My father was atheist, my mother kept her opinions mute to appease my father. I didn't care in the least. A tragedy in my life, the death of my first child when I was 22 years old, led me to begin a quest to find a god if one existed. I investigated probably 20 different religions in the following 4 years and when my first son was 3 years old, found the LDS Church. It fit me like a glove. I have been devoutly practicing for 30 years now. I'm not the best example of my faith. I have my faults, but basically I've never regretted a moment of my life since. If it were to end tomorrow I'd meet my God and thank him for the joyful experience and hope He'd overlook my shortcomings and welcome me back home. (I think He will after a stern lecture about my naughty internet behavior.  j/k )
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 11 2008, 07:30 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Red
Group: sVIP Received 63 Thanks Posts: 7,501 Joined: 18-June 04 From: Netherlands Member No.: 231 |
So you made a conscious decision to choose a faith and where not forced (brainwashed) into it by your parents, which is fine. I only have a problem with people forcing their faith on others(even their own children)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 11 2008, 09:31 PM
Post
#16
|
|
 Wandering Weirdo
Group: sVIP Received 191 Thanks Posts: 2,328 Joined: 24-January 04 From: Belgium Member No.: 225  |
I don't think you are dumb for believing in God, I just think you are giving your God the credit YOU deserve Pink.
You get irritated that atheists assume religious people are mindless, but you keep insinuating that atheists are unhappy. You're doing the exact same thing as they are: you are extrapolating your own beliefs and fears. I simply don't understand how someone can look @ this world and believe in a good and just God and you can't seem to understand how someone can be happy believing life is nothing but a meaningless coincidence. IMO what you believe makes no difference whatsoever, it's what you do that defines who you are. After years of hating myself and the world and thinking of ways to improve myself and or the world, I have finally come to a point where I am quite pleased with myself and my position in the world (the likeable outcast). I have realised that the pursuit of answers is what makes me happy and actually finding them is usually a disappointment. Religions usually give you the answers. That simply doesn't work for me. A tad more on topic: Religions are just another way of identifying with other people imo. A part of group identity seems to be its contrast to other groups. Both groups will stress the differences up to the point that conflict becomes almost inevitable. This dynamic is masterfully depicted in Swift's Gulliver's travels. I read that book as a fairy tale when I was very young and most of it was lost on me, but after reading it now it was striking how relevant the story still is and what a brilliant observer and writer he was. To me there is no point to god, to Pink it's everything. IMO it's like the purpose of life... it has the value we attribute to it ourselves. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 11 2008, 09:42 PM
Post
#17
|
|
 Advanced Member
Group: sVIP Received 273 Thanks Posts: 6,707 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Auckland Member No.: 237  |
QUOTE If religion had never existed in the first place, all the wars that had ever been fought in the name of God, would just have been fought over something else... Supposition. Possibly true, but supposition all the same. QUOTE Look at Pink as an example; she obviously takes great comfort from her faith, so who the f*ck is anybody to try and take that away from her by questioning the usefulness of it? Because it's the comfort of a nice fantasy. It's the same kind of comfort people get from buying lottery tickets. Many religious people live their lives in expectation of a better time in the beyond, forgetting to actually live while they live. Besides, Pink is the exception not the rule. If you don't believe that, travel to Bradford, the Scottish Highlands, Pakistan, Indonesia, anywhere in the Arab world or South America. Indeed, large swathes of North America. Essentially, she's using the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy, but these are places where it's okay to behave as if something is true simply because we wish it to be true, and it's okay to oblige other people to behave likewise. I've said before that it's religious moderates who make religious extremism possible. Nothing I've seen or read has changed my mind on that, no matter how many hurt looks the religious moderates give me. QUOTE to keep the poor from killing the rich. Since the Norman invasion, yep that's pretty much it. To keep the slaves delighted with their slavery. All of the major religions make free-thinking, scepticism and a disdain for received authority a sin. See Genesis 2:9 If you're a women, religion is a vehicle of oppression for you personally, and it defeats me how any of them will have anything to do with it. They're usually so sensible, but all the studies suggest women tend to be more religious than men. Go figure. As for religion bringing comfort, that's a matter of perspective. Some of us prefer the truth even when it's harder. The religious don't have a monopoly on peace and happiness; from somebody on another forum: QUOTE I am very sorry that your sister is sick. I am confused though... why would that make you believe in God, or strengthen an existing belief? Many years ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer. She was 33 and had a small baby and felt that life had dealt her a cruel blow and wondered why. She asked me, "Why me?" My immediate response, spoken without passing through my "tact centre", was "Why not?" She looked rather stunned and I went on to qualify my reply and explained that there was no malice in the disease, it hadn't singled her out for any reason, because she had been "bad" or "deserved it". We talked for some time about life, the universe and everything and the conversation moved on. Almost two years later, when it was clear that her condition was terminal and on one of the last occasions that I saw her, she brought it up again. She said that of all the things anyone had said to her during her illness, that one comment had helped her to come to terms with it more than any other. My instant response and clear conviction that she was in no way culpable, that she had not been "chosen" to suffer and die and, even more importantly, that the effect of this on her little girl had not been "planned" by anyone or anything, had given her great comfort and, specifically, a peace - one that she had not been offered by any of the religious people who had tried to explain God's "reasons" for separating her from her husband and child. Before you claim that atheists cannot give comfort to the sick and dying, think again... we may chose to respect our loved ones enough to allow them to handle the truth and accept that life and death go hand in hand and accept one without fearing the other. Giving false hope is dishonest and I value honesty in my relationships above all else. I hope my loved ones trust and value me enough to be honest with me... maybe your sister would value the same respect? Just dropping by. Laters! |
|
|
|
|
Aug 12 2008, 11:48 AM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Red
Group: sVIP Received 63 Thanks Posts: 7,501 Joined: 18-June 04 From: Netherlands Member No.: 231 |
I already know the answer: 42. Only the question I don't know.
QUOTE Because it's the comfort of a nice fantasy. It's the same kind of comfort people get from buying lottery tickets. Then you should believe. As Blaise Pascal said, According to probability theory you should believe in God. If He exists, the profit for the believer is infinity. If He doesn't exists, the believer doesn't lose anything. Personally, I don't have a good chain of reasoning to come to the hypothesis "God exists", and there is no reason to falsify that. Therefore, I find the question if God exists irrelevant. The only question that is relevant is why do people believe in God and is this bad or good? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 12 2008, 05:36 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: sVIP Received 273 Thanks Posts: 6,707 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Auckland Member No.: 237 |
Jakster, please Google around Pascal's Wager. There are at least a dozen decent refutations of the logic in it, and it's so flawed as a proposition that even honest theists have stopped using it (God doesn't like people making bargains with faith, apparently). Pascal's Wager...lol...how 19th century
 |
|
|
|
|
Aug 12 2008, 06:04 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Red
Group: sVIP Received 63 Thanks Posts: 7,501 Joined: 18-June 04 From: Netherlands Member No.: 231 |
I was referring to the lottery statement (gambling is about as useful as believing in a God for me. Boring and I don't get the point (and or thrill) of it).
Also, in the same light you can also assume that everyone goes to hell (because most (more then 1 is all that's necessary for this) religions says that if you don't believe in their God and ways you go to hell. Also, I can't believe that an hypothetical almighty and flawless being would chose souls to enter his realm based solely on faith. Example: I spend my whole life helping the poor as atheist I'm a devout believer and have slaves working for me I would go to Hell if I'm the atheist, but go to heaven if I'm the devout believer. Shoot me now, then I won't have to bother living and can go strait to eternal pain. I "believe" that you should live your life in a way that humanity will go forward in it's evolution and scientific and cultural things. Therefore, all lawyers should be shot. |
|
|
|
|
Tags
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | SEO by MinervaSEO © Icelabz.net | Time is now: 6th September 2010 - 05:13 PM |